For Lewis, the reading of literature – above all, the reading of older literature – is an important challenge to some premature judgments based on ‘chronological snobbery.’ Owen Barfield had taught Lewis to be suspicious of those who declaimed the inevitable superiority of the present over the past.
…Lewis argues that a familiarity with the literature of the past provides readers with a standpoint which gives them critical distance from their own era. Thus, it allows them to see ‘the controversies of the moment in their proper perspective.’ The reading of old books enable us to avoid becoming passive captives of the Spirit of the Age by keeping ‘the clean sea breeze of the centuries blowing through our minds.’
– Alister McGrath, C.S. Lewis – A Life, p. 187
Old books don’t simply bring an old perspective – they bring perspective. You’ll never be a great critic of culture until you gain the vantage point of cultures gone by. I meet people who think that we’re finally figuring it all out these days. We’re the best of the best, surfing the edge of the tide of history. Little do they realize there were people in ages past much smarter than we are today.
This perspective could lead to reverse chronological snobbery. We want to be careful not to put artsy glowing halos around the heads of the departed. They were far from perfect. But their perspective is needed nonetheless – if we are to have any perspective at all.
Can you list some recommended books? You’ve posted a few times advocating the reading of old books, what are some really solid examples like a base or a starting point if you will?
Mortimer Adler’s list (I know you’re familiar with it) at the end of How to Read a Book gives a lot of ideas.
As far as theology, which is the main area I’ve read widely, I would recommend getting to know some older authors well. Find an author that you can read a great deal of. Much of my perspective on the Bible and the world is owed to reading a ton of John Owen, Jonathan Edwards, and John Calvin. For example, I took an elective on Owen in which I had to read about 1500 pages of his writing. I found him to be more ‘contemporary’ in some sense than the modern theology books I had read. He speaks to current issues without trying to. The Puritan paperbacks published by Banner of Truth are a great place to go to for old books that will profit you in multiple ways. I’ve also profited from reading Luther’s commentary on Galatians and some of his other writings.
If you go back pre-reformation, I would certainly recommend reading Augustine’s Confessions. It may be the most must-read book in all of church history alongside Calvin’s Institutes (from my biased perspective). I would also recommend the standard doctrinal classics – Cur Deus Homo (Why God Became Man) by Anselm and On the Incarnation by Athanasius.
As far as the modern ‘old books’ you already know that I highly recommend C.S. Lewis, Martyn Lloyd-Jones, and G.K. Chesterton.
If I had to put together a list of recommendations that was really concise, it would probably be this: Augustine’s Confessions, Calvin’s Institutes, Communion with God and The Mortification of Sin by John Owen, The Religious Affections and The End for Which God Created the World by Jonathan Edwards, The True Bounds of Christian Freedom by Samuel Bolton, and The Abolition of Man and An Experiment in Criticism by C.S. Lewis. I would also highly recommend any of Lloyd-Jones’s volumes on Romans and The Everlasting Man by G.K. Chesterton.
Outside of theology, I can’t argue with anything Adler says. I highly recommend reading works relating to mythology in ancient cultures, like The Odyssey and the Aeneid, and assorted collections of myth. I think mythology’s deifying of things like love, power, fertility, and the like speaks to our culture powerfully. I’m also big, as you know, on any old fairy tale books you can get your hands on, and old poetry. I’m not as well-versed in the older novels of the Victorian age and the like, so I can’t really speak to that.
I’ve read some of those but then again a re-read would be beneficial to my soul as well.
At the moment, I’ve been steeping my self in the Sermon on the mount by MLJ. I’m also starting the Discarded Image on the side by Lewis…….I want to get into Jonathan Edwards works after those two books. I hear and see people say they have been influenced by Edwards yet I have only read a few sermons.
The last two books I read were God the Father and God the Son by MLJ and Of other Worlds by C.S. Lewis…..Have you read his short stories? They remind me of Chestertons writings but of course Lewis has his own grip in story telling.
It looks like I already I have the resources (having a Library not to far from my house is nice ) like Adlers list and I have access to Calvin, Luther, and the Puritans. I still have C.s. Lewis books I haven’t read. I really like reading Chesterton, I read his essays, orthodoxy and Everlasting man with Father Brown best Stories.
I wanted to see if you would list names I haven’t heard before. I have never read Samuel Bolton, (Why God became Man) Anselm, Mythology is new to me also. I’m eager to get into the depths of the old but I only have so much time.
I must Redeem the Time for the days are evil.
I think you know my Blog…..I know I said I was going to post things on there but I will soon. There are so many thoughts that come up while reading The Sermon on the Mount…..it’s incredible ( I mean the book)
I haven’t read Lewis’ short stories. I have read MLJ’s sermon on the mount. I taught a long Sunday School series on the sermon on the mount a while back and used it as my go-to commentary (along with Thomas Watson’s, which you can find online).
Just remember that you can’t read all the time. You’re doing fine.
Do you know anything about the program college plus?
I have heard of it, but don’t know anything about it. I will say this on the subject though:
With online education the way that it is nowadays, it’s feasible to get a degree online from a reputable state university. I am graduating from Mississippi State this summer and I paid regular tuition, which was almost completely covered by a pell grant (I only paid about $700 per semester out of pocket). I had a friend from Missouri call me a while back and ask for advice about online schools, and I found that Southeast Missouri (SEMO) offers online degrees with very low tuition, even if you don’t live in MIssouri. I’m sure there are manymany, other schools like that. I only bring this up because I know, as someone who studied at a Bible college previously, that the place you get your degree from, and the subject, is very important in terms of getting a good job in the ‘secular’ realm. I decided to go back to a state university for that reason.
The process is not that difficult (though there will be a lot of course work involved), and I’d be glad to give you any kind of advice I can about online schools. Like I said, I’ve spent the last two years taking online classes.
O yes! I would like to get a higher education and online classes are convenient to my situation.The lack on my part would be the knowledge of what state universities to follow or how to get into them as of online and the subject matter of course. I was thinking at first to go into liberal studies but what do you say?
My first advice is this: I would check out colleges that are in your state. This is why I chose Mississippi State for myself. It meant for me that if a situation arose in which I needed to physically deal with something on campus, it would not be impossible for me to do so. As it turned out, nothing came about that made that necessary, but I still think it was a good decision to stay in state. It allowed me to have some sense of actually belonging to the school that I chose.
Google every school in your state with something like this ‘[insert school] online degrees.’ See what they offer, and if any of those degrees sound interesting to you. Any type of bachelor’s degree (whether B.A. or B.S.) will involve two years of basic liberal arts education, so that’s not an issue.
Many schools offer degree programs involving education (for teachers), business, interdisciplinary studies (which lets you study more than one subject in your major), and others. Like I said, look for something that sounds interesting to you.
If you see anything interesting, check the tuition rates. I would say look for something that is below $280.00 per credit hour (that’s around the cost of your average state school). Mississippi State costs around that price. SEMO, which I mentioned, is around $230. SEMO even allows out of state students to take classes at that price. Here’s a couple of links to give you an idea what I’m talking about: http://online.semo.edu/content/OnlineDegrees/UndergraduateDegrees.asp
http://online.semo.edu/content/BecomeAStudent/FinancialAid.asp
The first step, then, is finding a state university that offers something, ANYTHING, that interests you (any bachelor of arts or bachelor of science program). Then find out the cost. If it is below what I suggested as reasonable, simply email the person listed as a contact for distance education, and see if you can get some counsel from them.
And by all means apply for FAFSA (federal pell grant). If you qualify for it, it costs you nothing. It is the government’s investment in your education and it does not have to be paid back. I can answer more questions about that in the future if you need me to.
Thanks for the wholesome reply, I’m going to give it a spin
I have another question. I don’t have any idea what I want to do as a career, should I choose a course of study that would help me get into jobs? Or just choose anything like you? Like english lit,
You probably would want to study English ONLY if you plan to go on and do a Master’s Degree. But, like I said, even an English degree, simply by the fact it is a degree, could help you get some jobs you wouldn’t have been able to get otherwise.
But most people who get a degree in English plan to teach English. And to do so would require not just a bachelor’s degree, but certainly future certification procedures of some sort, and maybe even a Master’s Degree.
Do you know the difference between a BA in English and a BA in English Lit?
What I meant to say, should I go into something that is wholly practical for today’s working-class or go into something that I’m actually interested in?
If you can find something that is both that would be great. If you are interested in computers at all, then it wouldn’t hurt to do something in tech. But that goes for other areas of study. Any degree will be better than no degree as far as looking for a job/career in the future.
I’ve researched this for a class: the average college graduate makes over $10 thousand more per year in their first job after graduation as compared to what non-graduates make. Many jobs, even sales jobs and the like, just require a bachelors degree, regardless of what subject it’s in.
Thanks for the encouragement!
did you first do an undergraduate program then moved to graduate? Or what it all in one?
They are separate.
I wouldn’t mind a degree in english literature and if it would even help getting a job then I’m all for that. Whether or not I would like to teach the subject is still up for discussion. I do like computers, as a instrument of accessibility in resources goes but other than that it’s just a computer to me.
I need to go to work so I will chew on this.
Do you know the difference between a BA in English and a BA in English Lit?
I’m not positive, but my guess would be that English focuses more on language and grammar and Lit more on actual works of literature.
Ya beats me. I’m really interested in a BA in English Lit. I think I would enjoy course through literature especially older books. Can you do a quick search for me? Could you check out the reliability of Grand Canyon University…it’s a private christian school. I just don’t want to go into anything that would be a scam or unworthy of the notice at all.
I’m going to keep looking around for other ones
http://www.thebestschools.org/rankings/30-best-online-colleges-2014/
I’ve met a couple of people that went to that school; they are reputable. The only issue might be that, because it’s a private school, the tuition is very high. It is almost $700 per credit hour, which is more than twice as much as a standard state university. Private schools, including private Christian colleges, are going to be very expensive.
I won’t be able to reply to anything else today, but here’s something I found in a quick Google search:
http://degreedirectory.org/articles/Where_Can_I_Earn_an_English_Literature_Degree_Through_Distance_Education.html
Is $323 for credit hour a fairy low price? I’m interested in the southern new hampshire university online program for english language and literature.
That’s not too bad, but I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that you could find something a little lower. Just to give you an idea:
I don’t know your income situation (which would include parents), but if you qualified for a full pell grant you would receive about $2,800 per semester. At $323 per hour, a full time semester’s worth of classes would cost about $3,900, which would leave you having to find scholarships to make up the difference, or paying out of pocket. So, $323 is not that bad comparatively speaking, but you need to keep in mind that that equals out to close to $8,000 a year plus books. A pell grant would make up for well over half of that, but I just want to make sure you understand what all that amounts to.
I didn’t answer one of your replies about my income situation. I work at a local Safeway working on average 35-40 hours a week in which minimum wage is the pay. The high would be 1000 to 1100 dollars a month and low would be 700 to 800 dollars a month. I don’t know if I’m even listed for full time at the work, I think I’m going to talk to the manage of the store and ask if I can get the solid hours. I also have to pay 200 dollars a month for car insurance and tithing. That would drop the $1000 to 700 for college fees. Its all going to vary and I like your advice about talking to a person at the schools distant office.
Thanks for the help tonight.
Looking around, I think that $323 may be about as get as you are going to get for English lit. You may want to email someone in their distance office and talk about the possibilities for scholarships, and seek their advice about the possibility of taking classes.
One thing to consider is that you might be able to take basically your first two years of classes at a junior college at a much lower cost. But you would need to talk with people at the school about that probably. A lot of people choose to take their basic ‘core’ classes at a junior college (which are generally much less expensive) and then transfer to a 4 year college for their final two years as they begin to focus on the actual work for their degree.
That make sense. I’m still tied between two ideals, whether I should pursue the quicker at hand job of let’s say an apprenticeship and have the access to having a family of my own sooner. Or to spend 4 years getting a education and having to use my income that is now being received for the college, at the expense of a later marriage and a family of my own.
I would have to confess that I have and still do struggle with sexual sin yet it doesn’t have dominion over my life and my question is, would it be wise to postpone marriage much longer?
Then again, I agree with anyone who says an education is important and of much worth.
Is there any way I.can have both without eliminating the other?
It all depends on how hard you are willing to work. I am in my early 30s, got married in my early 20s, and have had to work more than full time while continue to pursue educational goals. I don’t think this is an either/or. It just depends on whether you are willing and able to work really hard, and whether you can find a mate who is willing to be your helpmate/teammate. If my wife didn’t commit to what I do then I wouldn’t be able to do it. But we like to say that we are always on the same team. Whatever I do, she is working to help me.
I do want to really encourage you to consider going to a junior college, even if it has to be online, that you might be able to afford for the time being. In our world a college education is almost an absolute necessity if you are going to pursue a career that will allow you to use your mental and creative gifts. You will find other ways to use those gifts, hopefully within the context of the church; but it would be great if you could use them in other realms as well.
I would say those are two desires of mine, to get married because I grew up in a family that was and still isn’t whole with God and the Bible. My Dad and I, are basically the only Christians in the family and so the family is split but not totally asunder. Knowing the puritan to some degree, I can say I yearn for what they had and what Jonathan Edwards grew up having. My second desire is to get a better education because I know this Christian Life is real and much is at stake here so knowing more about the world and myself and God would be beneficial for this life and the life.to come.
At the same time, i’m increasingly wanting to attend a Reformed.church, a calvinistic church, that is primarily concerned with expository preaching and Christ centered preaching.
Although, you aren’t my Genie in the Bottle, where I can get three wishes and everything will be alright, I’m sure you have faced predicaments and choices like this as a pastor yourself, haven’t.you?
I have, and I’ll tell you what I tell pretty much all of the young folks that I talk to: the younger you are, the more dramatic everything is, especially in the moment.
Families are not perfect. I did not grow up in a Christian home and my parents are still not Christians, plus they divorced when I was in junior high. God has been kind to you just as he has been kind to me.
As for your wishes: you can find a Reformed church in your area and you can trust in God’s loving providence for the rest (in his time). You can’t magically produce a woman to marry, so give it time. That doesn’t mean you should sit around and do nothing by any means. Keep living your life and don’t let your dreams dictate that. Sin will happen. You will fall. But make sure that when it happens it humbles you and keeps you relying on mercy instead of on yourself.
As for school, keep googling. Junior colleges about and there are many that are affordable.
I’m praying for you.
Thanks