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The Interviews: Lessons from the Enduring and Unfamous

I recently interviewed two ministers for a class project. The interviews turned into much more than interviews. They turned into long conversations, and, I hope, friendships. I won’t go into specifics here, only lessons. I want to share how and why these men caused me to praise God.

I decided that I wanted to interview older ministers who had stayed the course in the ministry. Between the two men that I chose, I was listening to the wisdom gleaned from over 100 years of experience in gospel ministry. Both were ordained in the 1950’s, both have continued to fight the good fight, both are running the race right on to the end. This, in itself, made the time and effort to interview these men worth it. Here were two men who endured, and remain joyful, and continue to minister into their 80’s. Neither of them sought (or gained) wealth, neither of them had the slightest desire to be famous, neither of them even sought to be relevant (in the worldly sense of the term). They were simply faithful, and remain faithful. God bless them and all men like them.

Of all the things God taught me in these interviews, the main thing was the power of endurance. More than ever I long for nothing more than to be called to a church that will have me for the rest of my life. George Bush didn’t invent staying the course, and he didn’t ruin the idea or practice of doing so. Staying the course, at least to me, still means something.

Honor is due to those who endure, not just to those who sparkle. We should honor such men much more than we do.

The other primary lesson I learned is that ministry is intricately tied to personality. God gives diverse gifts. You can’t escape it. I talked to two men who have lasted for so long, two men whose theological beliefs are essentially identical, and yet their practices were very different. They dealt with people very differently, they preached differently in some respects, and yet they both capably ministered to the flocks the good Shepherd entrusted to them.

I am a big believer in imitation. I believe that discipleship, stripped down, is imitation of Jesus through imitation of those who are like Jesus. But these interviews reminded me that, under Christ, you must, in some sense, be your own man. If I tried to follow the advice of both men I would be called schizophrenic. They were that different. But both were faithful, and I don’t judge one to be more faithful than the other. They both proclaimed the Word of God and cared for the souls of men. At the end of the day, what more could you ask? You must take those two things, which go hand in hand and cannot be separated for a pastor – proclamation and soul-care – and do them with all you might according to the gifts that God has given you, within the bounds of his Word.

Young ministers, Do not rush into the ministry without counsel, without the wisdom and prayers of godly, Christ-loving men who have run the race before you. Don’t seek the famous, seek the godly and enduring.

I felt a call to gospel ministry 12 years ago. I began preaching 12 years ago. But I was not ready to pastor a flock (I also happened to be 20 years old). Could God edify men through my preaching? Yes. Could he win the lost through my preaching? Yes. But I would not have been able to care for a flock on a regular basis. ‘Not a novice, lest he be puffed up with pride and fall into the snare of the devil.’ Paul wrote that for a reason. Seek counsel from those wiser, and holier, than you. And while you’re at it seek their prayers – not prayers for your success, but prayers for wisdom and holiness.

Nearly every morning, when I wake up and begin my morning prayers, I thank God that I woke up a Christian. It wasn’t a dream. I didn’t wake up to find the old me had reappeared in the night. Grendel had not appeared and slaughtered while the king slept. God’s mercies in Christ are new every morning, and he slumbers not nor sleeps. Take the time to look at older men and women who have endured. Study their endurance. Pray for your own: ‘Here’s my heart, O take it seal it, seal it for thy courts above.’ God’s sustaining power is amazing.

Pastoral Prayers of Martyn Lloyd-Jones

The MLJ Trust has made a recording of some of Martyn Lloyd-Jones’ pastoral/congregational prayers available for free at their website. You can listen or download the audio HERE.

I’ve wanted to hear this recording since reading about it years ago in Tony Sargent’s book, The Sacred Anointing. I am thankful that the Trust has made them available online. They were a balm to my soul tonight.

Prayer is not simply about speaking, it is about listening. Corporate and pastoral prayer are vital for precisely this reason. Prayer is a response to God’s revelation of himself, and a response that to a great degree is learned and conditioned. What better way to learn than to go to the school of prayer with men like the Doctor who know their Father quite well, and have such liberty in his presence.

A List of Calls to Worship

All quotations are from the ESV:

  • Psalm 100:1 Make a joyful noise to the LORD, all the earth! 2 Serve the LORD with gladness! Come into his presence with singing! 3 Know that the LORD, he is God! It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. 4 Enter his gates with thanksgiving, and his courts with praise! Give thanks to him; bless his name! 5 For the LORD is good; his steadfast love endures forever, and his faithfulness to all generations.
  • Psalm 107:1 Oh give thanks to the LORD, for he is good, for his steadfast love endures forever!
  • Psalm 136:1 Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good, for his steadfast love endures forever. 2 Give thanks to the God of gods, for his steadfast love endures forever. 3 Give thanks to the Lord of lords, for his steadfast love endures forever; 4 to him who alone does great wonders, for his steadfast love endures forever…
  • 1 Chronicles 16:28 Ascribe to the LORD, O clans of the peoples, ascribe to the LORD glory and strength! 29 Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name…
  • 1 Chronicles 16:28 Ascribe to the LORD, O clans of the peoples, ascribe to the LORD glory and strength! 29 Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name; bring an offering and come before him! Worship the LORD in the splendor of holiness; 30 tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved. 31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice, and let them say among the nations, “The LORD reigns!”
  • Psalm 29:1 Ascribe to the LORD, O heavenly beings, ascribe to the LORD glory and strength. 2 Ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name; worship the LORD in the splendor of holiness.
  • Psalm 97:1 The LORD reigns, let the earth rejoice; let the many coastlands be glad!
  • Psalm 96:1 Oh sing to the LORD a new song; sing to the LORD, all the earth! 2 Sing to the LORD, bless his name; tell of his salvation from day to day. 3 Declare his glory among the nations, his marvelous works among all the peoples!
  • Psalm 149:1 Praise the LORD! Sing to the LORD a new song, his praise in the assembly of the godly!
  • Psalm 107:1 Oh give thanks to the LORD, for he is good, for his steadfast love endures forever! 2 Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he has redeemed from trouble…
  • Psalm 103:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and all that is within me, bless his holy name! 2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits, 3 who forgives all your iniquity, who heals all your diseases, 4 who redeems your life from the pit, who crowns you with steadfast love and mercy…
  • Psalm 95:6 Oh come, let us worship and bow down; let us kneel before the LORD, our Maker! 7 For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand…
  • Psalm 118:14 The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation. 15 Glad songs of salvation are in the tents of the righteous…
  • Psalm 118:22 The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. 23 This is the LORD’s doing; it is marvelous in our eyes. 24 This is the day that the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.
  • Psalm 95:1 Oh come, let us sing to the LORD; let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation! 2 Let us come into his presence with thanksgiving; let us make a joyful noise to him with songs of praise!
  • Psalm 150:1 Praise the LORD!Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens! 2 Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness! 3 Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp! 4 Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! 5 Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals! 6 Let everything that has breath praise the LORD! Praise the LORD!
  • Psalm 30:4 Sing praises to the LORD, O you his saints, and give thanks to his holy name. 5 For his anger is but for a moment, and his favor is for a lifetime. Weeping may tarry for the night, but joy comes with the morning.
  • Lamentations 3:22 The steadfast love of the LORD never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; 23 they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. 24 “The LORD is my portion,” says my soul, “therefore I will hope in him.” 25 The LORD is good to those who wait for him, to the soul who seeks him.
  • James 4:8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you.