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Circumstances and Perspective

‘The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves that we are underlings.’ Thus Martyn Lloyd-Jones quotes Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar.

That is where the Christian message is of such help to us. It does not change the circumstances, but what it does is to change us…

The glory of our message is that circumstances, surroundings and ‘the stars’ remain exactly as they are. We can, however, maintain our composure because our attitude is different. It is a change in us which enables us to view these things without – dare I say it? – having to go to consult a psychiatrist!…The glory of the Christian position is that it puts us right. ‘If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature…all things are become new (2 Cor. 5:17). Now, in what sense is this true? it is in the sense that he sees them differently. It is the secret of Christian life and of living.

Two men look out through the same bars:
One sees the mud, the one the stars (F. Langbridge)…

They are looking at the same things, but their reaction is entirely different. This is what the Christian faith should do for us – if we will only practice it.

(Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Healing and the Scriptures, pp. 101-102)

Lloyd-Jones’ quote deals with a Christian way of dealing with stress. Most jobs are stressful, but I turn to the job of a professional football coach to illustrate his point. As a football fan I was always impressed with the demeanor of former Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy. You could never tell the score of the game by looking at his body language or facial expressions. They could be up by 20 or down by 20 but he always stood like a rock on that sideline. After the Colts won the Super Bowl in 2006, Dungy published his memoir entitled Quiet Strength and revealed quite plainly that the reason for his solid demeanor was his solid faith in Jesus Christ.

That book influenced me. Having watched the Colts, as a fan, for many years, and having seen his unflappable posture, and having read his book and seen his reasons behind it, I made this a point of emphasis in my own life. I do not want to come across as a robot. I do not want to be without passion or emotion, not at all. But what I want is to be in the midst of a storm and find that faith in my Savior allows me to stand calm and firm.

A few years ago I stood, literally, in the midst of a tornado that ravaged by neighborhood. Later I stood and watched as my daughter broke her arm. Only shortly after that I watched as my wife had a miscarriage. And in the midst of all this I stood daily in a stressful workplace, and regularly at the bedsides of sick church members.

The question in all of those situations comes down to this: where is God in the midst of it? Where is Jesus in the midst of it? If he is there, then I can be there too, and be there with a quiet strength that is not my own. The situation must not determine our actions – it is our perspective that must determine them. The question, then, is What is your perspective? As my friend Timothy pointed out, it should be that of the Book of Revelation – that in the midst of the bowls of wrath, trumpets of judgment, and cries of woe, Jesus walks in the midst (Rev. 1:13), as he did with those Hebrew youths of old (Dan. 3:25).

All things become new, says MLJ, in the sense that we see them anew, we see them differently. A miscarriage with God is different from one without God. A tornado with God is different from a tornado without God. Strive to see things right, and thereby strive to be unflappable. And, I suppose, that means that this is not just a matter of demeanor. Rather it is a matter of the soul. It is possible, and my own demeanor attests to it, that you can look calm on the outside while inwardly you are quaking – like a duck, who looks still on the water, but underneath his feet are very busy. Instead we want to be in the position of the psalmist:

O Lord, my heart is not lifted up;
my eyes are not raised too high;
I do not occupy myself with things
too great and too marvelous for me.
 But I have calmed and quieted my soul,
like a weaned child with its mother;
like a weaned child is my soul within me (Ps. 131:1-2).

Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones’ Method of Pastoral Counseling and Diagnosis

Healing and the Scriptures (Nashville: Oliver-Nelson, 1988), by Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, contains transcripts of several talks he gave at various assemblies of Christian medical doctors. Next to Preaching and Preachers, this book may lay bare the pastoral heart, and pastoral wisdom, of Lloyd-Jones better than any other (at least any other that I have read). He speaks as a medical man to medical men, yet he always retains that pastoral heart and perspective. Because of this, I think the book is as much a help to pastors as it is to doctors.

There is so much to be gleaned from the book, but in this post I will focus on what is perhaps the greatest contribution of the book specifically for pastors. In the last chapter – Mind, Body, and Spirit – the Doctor describes in some detail his own personal method for pastoral counseling. He takes you through his thought process of diagnosing problems and treating them from a pastoral perspective. This is the nitty gritty wisdom of a man who, at the point he gave this talk, had 40 years or so of pastoral experience in handling the Scriptures and dealing with real people with real problems. In this post, I have simply condensed the talk down to its salient points.

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I. Dangers in pastoral counseling

A. Over Involvement

  • “One is that the minister may get too involved…The minister is apt to become too emotionally involved in his efforts to sympathize. I have known a number of instances where ministers have really been brought almost to a breakdown themselves in their efforts to identify themselves with the difficulties of members of their congregations” (pp. 144-145).

B. Using Spiritual Methods for All Problems

  • “Another danger for a minister is to regard each case as spiritual and to approach it wholly on spiritual lines” (p. 145). He notes a case in which Christians had tried to offer spiritual counsel to a manic depressive and had exhausted themselves.

C. Breaching Trust

  • “A further difficulty for ministers…is that some patients feel that they cannot trust the minister, because they are afraid that they may be used as illustrations from the pulpit” (p. 145).

II. Lloyd-Jones goes on to describe his own method for pastoral counseling: Differentiating between four categories of problems: physical, spiritual, psychological (mental illness), and demonic issues

  • The first task is always diagnosis…Let me say at once, it is something that is extremely difficult. I find that differential diagnosis in this realm [i.e. as a pastor] is usually much more difficult than in clinical medicine – difficult as that may be at times (p. 147).

He uses the order – physical, spiritual, psychological, demonic – intentionally, noting that this is the order that he followed in his attempted diagnoses throughout most of his ministry.

A. Physical Problems

1) Diagnosis

  • “The first question I always ask myself is, ‘Is it physical?’ I wish to emphasize this, because there are some to whom it never occurs that the whole cause may be physical” (p. 148).

He goes on to cite several examples in which nervous conditions and spiritual crises have been caused by physical ailments.

2) Treatment

His way of dealing with physical issues is to have the ailing person seek good medical treatment (p. 167).

B. Spiritual Problems

1) Diagnosis

  • “The second question I ask myself is this: ‘If it is not physical, is it spiritual?’…What do I mean by a spiritual problem? It is one which can be dealt with entirely in spiritual terms. For example, the commonest problem is lack of assurance. Many are troubled about this. Others are concerned about some particular sin and how they can be rid of it. Or it may be the memory of a particular sin, or of an incident of blasphemy, or sin against the Holy Spirit, or some serious lapse in conduct” (p. 151).
  • “I have always found that with persons in this spiritual category there is a clear diagnostic point. They always show a readiness to listen and they almost jump at any of the verses quoted which give them relief. They hold on to what will really bring comfort and release. One must not be put off by their appearing at first to demur a little, with a, ‘Yes, but…’ They are really doing this in hope that you can go on to make your case still stronger. They want you to make your case and in my experience it is a diagnostic pointer to those in this group” (pp. 152-153).

2) Treatment

Patient, repetitive, Scriptural, pastoral counseling using the Bible and Christian wisdom derived from the Bible:

  • “…There is need for detailed proof. What I mean here is, that one must be precise and detailed in bringing to bear the scriptural arguments. The impression that one can just pat them on the back and tell them ‘Don’t worry’ is not only wrong, it can be real cruelty. We need to be very patient. We may need to go over the same arguments more than once. There may need to be a number of visits, but you must keep on and on” (p. 168).

C. Psychological Problems

  • “The third category…is the psychological. I use that general term, but if you prefer it, it could be ‘mental illness'” (p. 153).
  • “It is necessary for us to work with those in this field who have to establish the reality of mental illness, otherwise we are going to be guilty of great cruelty to some of those who come to consult us” (p. 155).
  • “Why would I affirm the reality of such illness? I suggest that the familiar (hereditary) element in the case histories alone is sufficient to establish it. Another fact is the periodicity so characteristic of many cases…Not only that, but there are many cases of mental illness which do not respond at all to spiritual, scriptural treatment, and indeed, are even made worse by this” (p. 156).

He cites specific cases for proof, and references Richard Baxter’s book, The Cure of Melancholy and Overmuch Sorrow (click the link for the full text), extensively (you can see my thoughts on that book HERE).

1) Diagnosis

  • “I think that you will find almost invariably that those who are mentally ill do not really listen to you. You quote Scripture, they do not listen. They keep repeating the same statements and give the impression that they are waiting for you to finish so that they can say their piece over again. This is almost invariable. You notice the difference as compared with those in spiritual trouble. The latter are anxious to have help. The others are not. I always feel with them that I am a kind of tangent to a circle. One never penetrates, they are almost impatient and go on repeating the same thing” (p 158).

2) Treatment

First, do not try to be a psychologist, especially of the Freudian kind (p. 168). They may need to see a physician/specialist. An appropriate prescription medication may be precisely what they need (but we are not able to decide that). Lloyd-Jones goes on to make a strong case for medical treatment for psychological cases. He relates brain chemistry to other physical ailments:

  • “If it is right to use insulin in replacement therapy for the pancreas, why is it wrong to take tablets which influence the good chemistry of the brain? I think we must get hold of the concept that mental illness is really something that has an ‘organic’ basis. It is something that can be explained chemically” (p. 169)

After making his argument, his conclusion is:

  • “We can, therefore, reassure those who believe that it is sinful to take drugs which relate to brain function that, where clinical trial and proper use have shown them to be valuable, they should be received with thanksgiving. All things in nature and scientific knowledge are the gifts of God and should be used to his glory” (p. 172).

*Note: Remember that Lloyd-Jones is not calling for the mass medicating of the masses – he is talking specifically about those who are clearly mentally ill according to the diagnostic pattern that he has set forth. ADHD, childhood manic depressive disorder, and the like were not even a blip on his radar screen when he gave this talk in 1974. He is specifically speaking of adults showing clear signs of mania or major depression.

D. Demonic Problems

  • “This brings us to my last category which is ‘the demonic.’ Am I confronted in this case with the physical or the spiritual or the psychological or the truly ‘demonic’?” (p. 158).

The Doctor goes on to make his case for the present reality of demonic activity in this world. He then distinguishes between ‘demonic oppression’ and ‘demonic possession.’

1) Demonic Oppression

a) Diagnosis

He argues that demonic oppression usually consists of attacks on believers, and he gives his diagnostic points:

  • “What are they? First, the sudden onset of the condition; second, it was something unexpected in this type of person, and something that they had never had before. Suddenly…excellent people are changed and become more or less useless. There is always a suggestion of an occult opposition to the work of God which they are doing, as if an enemy is out to spoil or stop it (pp. 162-163). Another diagnostic element is extreme weakness…Then the last diagnostic point is that they, of course, make no response to any medical treatment, no matter what it is. They also baffle all those who treat them medically or psychiatrically” (pp. 164-165).

b) Treatment

  • “…I do not hesitate to say this – you will always be able to deliver them by reasoning with them out of the Scriptures. I do not mean by just quoting Scripture but deploying the whole basic arguments of Scripture concerning salvation, calling and service” (p. 168).

2) Demonic Possession

a) Diagnosis

  • “Then there are cases which can only be regarded as demon possession…What are the diagnostic points in these cases? You generally find a history of dabbling with spiritualism or the occult in some form. It may have been back in their childhood, or during teenage [years], that they have been introduced to the occult and experimented with occult phenomena. They may also have experimented with drugs” (p. 165).
  • “One clear diagnostic point is that one becomes aware of a dual personality” (p. 165).
  • “A still more significant pointer is their reaction to the name of our Lord. I always tell ministers who are confronted by the duty of treating such cases to use the phrase – ‘Jesus Christ is come in the flesh’ and to note the reaction. Talk to them of ‘the blood of Christ’ and you will generally find that they will react quite violently to this” (p. 166).

b) Treatment

  • “If it is demonic the choice of the correct treatment is not difficult. There is nothing that one [can] do but to seek…divine aid for the exorcism of the evil spirit. There is, as you know, a Church of England service of exorcism. The late Bishop of Exeter has produced a booklet which, in my opinion, explains this all very well indeed. It teaches clearly what should be done and not done” (p. 167).

The booklet he references (Exorcism: The Report of a Commission Convened by the Bishop of Exeter (1972)) is available for free online HERE.

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The book, Healing and the Scriptures, is available HERE (used copies are cheap at the moment). Plus, the actual talk on which the chapter is based is available (for free) at the MLJ Trust website in two parts: Part 1, Part 2. If this post piqued your interest at all, I encourage you to listen to the talks, and, better yet, get the book.

Quotations are used as summaries for instructional purposes.

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APPENDIX: IAIN MURRAY ON LLOYD-JONES AS A PASTORAL COUNSELOR

A. On Diagnosis

  • “In interviewing a person who had come for help ML-J followed some basic procedures, beginning with diagnosis. There were certain broad questions which he always asked himself such as: Was the person a Christian or a non-Christian? Was the problem spiritual or were there indications that the individual had physical or mental problems requiring medical advice or treatment?” (Iain Marry, D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, The Fight of Faith: 1939-1981, p. 406).
  • In the footnote here, Murray writes that Lloyd-Jones considered the category of mental problems to be “a minority” (Ibid).
  • “Preliminary diagnosis of this kind ML-J regarded as far from easy and he often emphasized to fellow ministers the harm that could be done by wrong evaluations: ‘We are dealing with souls, with persons.’ His method was to listen, at length if necessary, and with occasional questions which might, at times, cut at right angles across the speaker’s own line of thought” (Ibid).

B. On Spiritual Counseling

  • “Where the problem of those who sought help was not psychological and they professed to be Christians, perhaps considering that they need sanctification or assurance, he set no great store [on] self-assessments. The first thing was to make certain of their foundation. He therefore looked for the features of a regenerate mind, such as concern to be God-centered instead of self-centered and where this was missing the starting point had to be conviction of sin. A defective understanding of sin he regarded as the main hindrance in stopping people [from] depending on Christ alone for justification. ‘If you talk to a man about sanctification only, when his great need is to be shown the way of justification, you will aggravate his troubles” (p. 407).

C. On Distinguishing a Christian from a Non-Christian

  • “If he believed he was speaking to a non-Christian he would simply repeat the same truths he preached, looking to the Holy Spirit to give the necessary light for a saving response…Whether or not an individual was a Christian made a fundamental different to Dr. Lloyd-Jones’ whole approach to their particular problem. The Christian and the non-Christian may, of course, experience the same kind of problem, but while the latter is spiritually helpless, the Christian is in possession of a strength which is not his own. He has ‘died to sin.’ He has the ability to resist sin and must do so…Christians are to look not at themselves and their problems but at what God has done for them” (pp. 407-408).

D. On His Personal Style

  • “A number who were in very evident moral trouble when they first saw ML-J to confess their need, observed how he never reacted with shock or disapproval. Speaking on this point to Christian doctors, he once said: ‘We must always be careful to avoid condemnation – especially in the case of a sick or agitated person. If the plain truth of the situation comes home to the patient that is one thing; but is not our place to condemn.’ ‘For people in difficulties of their own making,’ writes Geoffrey Thomas, ‘his tolerance was inexhaustible…He was the very antithesis of the unworldly “churchy” person destitute of knowledge of wordly problems” (pp. 412-413).
  • “It would give a misleading impression, however, to imply that ML-J in private was nothing but charm and affability. He could be otherwise. His patience had limits in the case of those who caused difficulties for themselves or for others when, he considered, they ought to have known better. At such times he could speak very plainly and, as some of us close to him found, with a touch of anger” (p. 413).
  • “It was observed by one of the medical members at Westminster Chapel…that ML-J ran his vestry interviews as a specialist runs his consulting rooms…Few people succeeded in taking much of his time unnecessarily. Those who came simply to meet him and exchange pleasantries were always welcome, but after a few minutes they were liable to be propelled gently backwards to the door with a warm handshake. As this procedure was obviously unworkable if a visitor was seated, ML-J had to make an instant decision as each person was shown into his room. He was always standing as someone entered and would move at once towards them to greet them. If he judged that a short conversation was all that was needed…he would remain standing with them. On the other hand, if the individual was a stranger who had come with a spiritual concern, he or she would be asked to sit down on the leather couch while ML-J would sit opposite, either in a favourite leather armchair beside the electric fire or on a swivel chair beside his desk. He never spoke to anyone from behind a desk” (p. 405).

For further details see Murray, The Fight of Faith, pp. 403-423.

It’s Like…You Know…Okay?

This post has been sitting in the ‘drafts’ for a while, but tonight I actually saw a video shared on Facebook that makes the point much more strongly than I was orgininally able to.

A portion of a sermon by Martyn Lloyd-Jones (on Ephesians 6:15, ‘feet shod’) got the ball rolling on this line of thought:

Have you a definite position? Are you prepared to stand in it, and say, ‘I will never yield, I will never move from this?’ The moment you begin to compromise on this Word of God you will soon be slipping and sliding both in doctrine and in practice. Some people are constantly contradicting themselves; they praise the Protestant and the Nonconformist Fathers in the first half of their address or article; then criticize them in the second half. That is not ‘standing’; that is sliding. They do not know where they are, and no-one else knows.

As the Apostle Paul says in 2 Corinthians 1:19, the Gospel of Christ is not yea and nay at one and the same time. That is true of politics, of ecclesiasticism, of ‘the world’; but it is not true of Christ.

I recently listened to a Mars Hill Audio anthology on the subject of ‘words.’ An author, who was being interviewed, made the point that she theorizes the common American usage of the term ‘like’ as a conversation filler has more to it than meets the eye (or ear in this case). Like is a term of equivocation. It is the language, obviously, of ‘likening.’

Jesus uses such language when he likens the kingdom of God to certain stories or things. The kingdom of God is like a man in search of costly pearls, etc. But Jesus used the term ‘like’ in order to convey ideas and concepts in concrete terms. He actually wants us to know what the kingdom is like in terms that we can understand and relate to.

I am afraid it is not so with many modern Americans. Perhaps the word simply slips out as an unconscious filler in the midst of brain lags. Perhaps not. Perhaps we have been trained, unlike Jesus, to never say things concretely, but to equivocate and make our language as ambiguous as possible so as not to offend or contradict anyone else. Rather than standing in their speech they are sliding.

Here’s a clip from Def Poetry Jam that says it more clearly than I have been able to. I don’t know who the man is yet, but I appreciate his articulation of the idea:

Recent Reading: The Cure of Melancholy and Overmuch Sorrow, By Faith, by Richard Baxter

I have said before that a single sermon by a given Puritan may contain more than many of the fluffy books of our day. The Puritans were such that a single sermon could be turned into a book. Case in point: Richard Baxter’s The Cure of Melancholy and Overmuch Sorrow, By Faith. I ordered this book from Amazon after hearing a hearty recommendation by Martyn Lloyd-Jones in a talk available HERE (note, I am only linking the second part of the talk).

UPDATE: I also found Lloyd-Jones’ treatment of Baxter in book form. I have written about it HERE.

In the sermon, which is available as a book, Baxter expounds upon the words of 2 Corinthians 2:7: ‘…so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.’ Baxter’s term ‘melancholy’ would be better understood by modern ears as ‘depression’ – being ‘overwhelmed with excessive sorrow.’ What do you do when your sadness is overwhelming?

Baxter is concerned first to show us that there is such a condition, that the condition could be physical in nature (due to biological issues or temperament), or that it could be the result of demonic activity, that it could be something easily treated, or it could be something very difficult to treat. Since the condition varies so greatly, he is concerned that we be able to diagnose it and treat it properly according to the diagnosis.

I will not review the book, but I want to make a few statements about it. First, this book, along with the Doctor’s talk on it, are extremely helpful in regards to pastoral counseling. The nuances of the book are tremendous. Baxter wants us to be careful not to lump all cases of sadness into the same mould. So, let’s say for instance, you have two women come to talk to you on the same day. Both are depressed. But their depressions are very different. The tendency, I think, is for the pastor to tell them to read their Bibles and pray. Baxter counters such thinking by saying that could be the worst thing this person could do. It all depends on the situation.

If you tell a severely depressed person to pray, and that is your primary counsel, then what if they find that they can’t pray? Or what if they do pray, but find that their prayers only serve as a further opportunity to brood over their problems, thus making them worse? What if you tell them to read their Bible and they find that they can’t? What if the do read and decide to turn to the imprecatory psalms? It is to the benefit of the one being counseled that we refrain from blanket answers. We must have a better understanding of the situation. We must have some understanding of the myriad of ways in which the effects of sin, and weak bodies, show up.

Baxter’s approach is also a great relief to pastors, or at least I found it to be so. I have dealt with individuals over the years who always want to talk about the same thing. And it can go on for months, even years. They cannot get over a certain, single issue. What do you do? Baxter’s answer is that this is a psychological problem (that’s certainly how MLJ understood Baxter). It is a spiritual problem to be sure, but it is not a problem that can be solved with pastoral counseling. I can recite John 3:16 100 times in 100 days to someone, but I do not have the power to make that word come to a person with force. There is a time for the pastor to realize that he cannot go on counseling someone who cannot be counseled ‘lest he himself become ensnared.’ That alone, from this book, made it worth it for me. Because I’ve been there. I’ve had to accept that I can’t fix all problems. Jesus can fix problems, but Jesus does not fix the problems of those who are not trusting in him.

To give a couple of examples of Baxter’s words: First, on the fact that not all such depression is within the power of a pastor to counsel or solve, he notes that problems can be medical – that medicine, in some cases, can do more than a pastor. He goes so far as to say that in some sense the right medicine can repel Satan himself:

If it were, as some of them fancy, a possession of the devil, it is possible that physic [i.e. medical treatment] might cast him out, for if you cure the melancholy, his [that is, Satan’s] bed is taken away, and the advantage is gone by which he worketh. Cure the choler, and the choleric operations of the devil cease. It is by means and humours that he worketh.

I rail on the overuse of antidepressants regularly, but to say that they have no purpose is just plain wrong. They can be the very tool God uses to make someone teachable.

Another quote: We often say that those who are in pain need to talk about their troubles, but this is not always the case. Baxter writes,

Let not all men know that you are in your troubles: complaining doth but feed them.

Here we can distinguish between talking about problems and complaining about problems. Be careful when you talk that you are not complaining. Talking may help, but complaining likely won’t.

Don’t even let your prayers, Baxter says, focus on the problems:

Especially, when you pray, resolve to spend most of your time in thanksgiving and praising God. If you cannot do it with the joy that you should, yet do it as you can.

We tell people to think through things. Baxter counsels:

Avoid your musings, and exercise not your thoughts now too deeply, nor too much. Long meditation is a duty to some, but not to you, no more than it is a man’s duty to go to church that hath his leg broken, or his foot out of joint: he must rest and ease it till it be set again, and strengthened.

He tells people, when they can’t pray in a helpful way, to sing psalms and hymns. He tells overwhelmed minds to take a rest.

The quotes are a bit of a hodgepodge here. But they serve to show how different his counsel is from what often passes as pastoral counseling these days. I cannot recommend this book too highly. But I warn you that it will probably take several readings to begin to digest the content. You can read it for free HERE. And, all the more, I recommend Lloyd-Jones’ talks HERE and HERE.

Early on in my Christian life I was introduced to that hymn that says, ‘Sunshine, blessed sunshine, when the peaceful happy moments roll. When Jesus shows his smiling face, there is sunshine in my soul.’ There is not always sunshine in the soul. We need to be weathermen who can see the storms and act according to the situation.

Lost In Your Profession

Martyn Lloyd-Jones was speaking to a group of medical doctors, but this thought applies equally well to a good number of professions and professionals, not just to doctors (and grocers):

Somewhere in Pembrokeshire a tombstone is said to bear the inscription ‘John Jones, born a man, died a grocer.’ There are many whom I have had the privilege of meeting, whose tombstone might well bear the grim epitaph: ‘…born a man, died a doctor’! The greatest danger which confronts the medical man is that he may become lost in his profession…

Quoted in Iain Murray, D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones: The Fight of Faith, 1939-1981, p. 335

The Doctor wasn’t too lost in his profession to heed the call to gospel ministry. And he wasn’t too lost in the gospel ministry to heed the call to be a husband and a father. What you do does not define you. What you are defines you, and what you do should flow out of that. There is a great danger in taking your identity from what you do rather than what Christ has done for you, and thus what you are in him.

MLJ on Medicine and Pastoral Counseling, etc

I recently listened to several talks given by Martyn Lloyd-Jones to the Christian Medical Fellowship in the 1970’s. These talks are pure gold for a number of reasons. First, even as one who took a full semester on pastoral counseling in seminary, and as a student of psychology, his talk on the subject of counseling is far more thought-out, rational, spiritual, and balanced than anything I’ve ever heard. Second, his precise method of diagnosing the spiritual, physical, and psychological problems is clear and helpful. I will never forget it. Third, his take on demon possession is intriguing and helpful. Fourth, his handling of questions from his listeners is masterful. I do not think I have ever heard someone handle a question and answer session so logically and thoroughly. I will re-listen to the Q and A just to soak up how he answers questions. Finally, as someone who works in the pharmacy industry, his take on medicine is tremendously helpful and it is amazing to note how many of his predictions in the ‘medicine in modern society’ talk have come true.

These talks are worth a listen just to hear such logic in action, not to mention that they are tremendously helpful for someone in any sort of pastoral or medical field. I am of the opinion that, at least in America, the role of medicine is going to be a central area of pastoral concern in the years to come. We are often concerned about technology as the main thrust of the issues coming down the pike, but we must consider that medicine is a big part of modern technology. From ADHD meds to anti-anxiety drugs, we need to be aware of what is going on in our pews and how it effects our people. These talks are extremely helpful for the principles they set forth concerning such issues.

Links:

The Supernatural in Religion and Medicine

Q & A on Healing and Demon Possession

Mind, Body, and Spirit PART 1 and PART 2

The Role of Medicine in Modern Society